Ooooh, now I feel like a cocktease. :( I have good news and bad news. Bad news is I don’t have the post I promised you. Good news is, this time next week, I’ll be able to tell you what happened to it. I’m not playing smoke and mirrors or stringing you along. Sometimes stuff happens. Plans change for the better. So, bookmark my site, subscribe to my rss feed and/or check back at the end of next week. Of course, I’ll update Funky Brown Chick between now and then. I’m just, you know, giving you the inside scoop that something interesting is on the horizon regarding me, interracial dating and black women. Nothing earth shattering, but I’m excited about the recent development.
And, now, for something completely different … Y’all know I love my readers and the comments section is one of my favorite parts of this blog. Somehow, I totally forgot to respond to my how many people have you slept with post until a couple days later. Lots of juicy comments on that one. In particular, I found it interesting people brought up the difference between oral and vaginal sex. I don’t consider oral sex “sex”. I mean, you know, it is but it isn’t. As I mentioned before, during my teens and early 20s, I considered myself a virgin because I hadn’t had vaginal sex — even though I played oral games with more than one boy. Hmmm … My slurping virgin history PLUS my fascination with William Saletan’s Slate magazine piece “The normalization of oral sex” (as well as his response to reader feedback “Was oral sex always normal?“) PLUS your comments about whether or not you count oral in your numbers EQUALS I’m dying to ask you all this question: Do you consider oral sex “sex”? In other words, if you go oral on someone, would you say “Bubba and I had sex” or tell folks “Bubba went down on me“? (Switch the order and/or gender to make that appropriate for you if needed — i.e. “I went down on Bubbette/Bubba.”) Inquiring minds want you to share your thoughts in the comments section.
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Photo credit: Lynne Lancaster
Link Love: “How Many Partners Makes You Promiscuous?” and an interesting quote.
{ 34 comments… read them below or add one }
I heard a progressive talk show host detail the manner in which President Clinton, before a grand jury, parsed the distinction between one having a sexual act performed “on” them, and having sex.
I consider oral sex ‘sex’. It isn’t what most define as intercourse, but in the sense that it is sexual, it is sex. Clinton’s defense wouldn’t have worked were he a h.s. gym coach and the other party under 18.
No, its not sex, but yes, its not something to be shared freely.
Now, when guys discuss what went down the night before, they don’t claim sex, but will always claim they could have it anytime. And they don’t usually admit that they returned the favor, and never admit if they are owed the favor. Most fellas think of oral sex as a form of submission (and many as a form of humiliation), so they know that if they admit to doing it they slip down a notch among the brethren.
Then those are those guys, there is usually at least one in every group, who talks too loud about too much, grading the juice and comparing the current cup to all the others before. Prone to exaggeration but egged on by his peers, he generally sets the tone for future discussion of sexual matters, which is why intelligent conversation about sex among men is a rare thing.
It’s not completely sex unless you’re slippin’ her the ol’ pickle. Partial sex, maybe.
“Most fellas think of oral sex as a form of submission (and many as a form of humiliation)” — Wha? I know exactly zero guys who feel this way. Some like it and some don’t, but nobody says “It makes me feel humiliated”. I believe it may have been true in ancient Rome, but in 2008? I don’t think so.
Wow, I can’t believe that in less than 50 years, oral sex went from “beyond traditional sex/beyond mere sex/sexual taboo” to something so many people think isn’t “sex” anymore. So is anal sex not sex because it doesn’t involved the vagina?
For me, I have always considered it sex and in some instances more intimate than sexual intercourse. Let’s put it this way: if I caught my husband having oral sex with someone else–that’s cheating, just as I would consider a sexual intercourse act, cheating.
If a person is forced to perform oral sex against their will–that’s rape even if there is no penile penetration. Noone would stop to place “boundaries/distinctions” over whether it was actual “sex” if child was involved.
It’s sex because bodily fluids are involved; because one received a sexual body part INTO YOUR body cavity(ies).
Whether it be your mouth, your anus, your vagina–it’s sex.
and I thought that was first base….. damn that penquin….
lamesabassman….. damn that Catholic school upbringing…..
@ Lee Coles: Totally agree with you. Any under 18 stuff is bullshit.
@ Mando G: You said, “Most fellas think of oral sex as a form of submission (and many as a form of humiliation).” HUH?!?! Any guys care to share their thoughts?
@ Baba Doodlius: Heeeey, you read my mind!!! :)
@ Peggy b.: You ask, “So is anal sex not sex because it doesn’t involved the vagina?” According to a lot of “virgins”, you betcha. By the way, for good Arnold Schwarzenegger jokes, google “eating is not cheating.” And I agree with you — eating IS cheating. And, technically, of course oral sex is sex or else they wouldn’t call it … wait for it, wait for it … oral sex. :) I think in practice, I make a distinction when it comes to guys’ consensual, mutual oral vs. vaginal play. I wouldn’t say, “I slept with X” if X and I only went oral.
@ lamesabassman: Ah, the Catholics.
of course its sex. it involves either a peni, or vagi and another person for sexual gratification. even a hand job is sex technically.
lets put it this way. if you found out your significant other was doing any of these things with …lets say the neighbor….the pool boy…..the fitness trainer at the gym…..you’d consider it cheating
well unless a threesome was involved…either way its still sex.
thats like saying anal isn’t sex because it does not involve a vajayjay and peni combo…..
Rule of thumb- if you had a child in h.s. that you’d chastise for participating in it at his/her age, it’s sex.
It sure is. Hell, I’d actually feel *less* guilty if I’d merely ‘stuck it to you’ than if I’d given you oral sex. On the receiving end it would depend on whether it was really really good (a function of eyes, saliva, and coordinated hand/mouth action).
@ dkzone: Absolutely! :) And, I totally get that oral is, technically, sex. But, I notice I don’t describe it that way — getting back to the difference between “sleeping with someone” (aka “having sex”) and letting someone go down on you. I could ask one of my girlfriends, “Did you have sex with him?” If they only went oral, I’m more likely to draw the answer like “almost” or “practically” or “everything but” than a simple “yes.”
@ Lee Coles: :)
@ errorboy: You said, “I’d actually feel *less* guilty if I’d merely ’stuck it to you’ than if I’d given you oral sex.” Because we know each other offline, you already know there was a time I would’ve totally hooked up with you. :) Times change. And, about this “really really good” stuff, it reminds me of that scene from “In the Cut.”
FBC, we’re getting closer via Twitter/blogging/Facebook. So it’s time I tell you something: I’m almost 30 and I don’t do oral. I gladly receive it, but I don’t give it. SO, no I don’t consider oral sex “sex.” Right now I’m in a sex drought that if it goes on any longer I’ll consider myself re-virginized. But I’m dangerously close (i.e. it almost happened in a closet at work yesterday) to getting some tongue – which would be great! But there’s nothing like the full and complete act from start to finish, you know?
Like you can say to your friend “I got some last night.” And they don’t ask “some what?” because they know you had sex. But if you say “Flush went down on me at work yesterday.” They might say “Ohmygosh! But did you guys do it, do it?” Oral can be a part of sex, but alone, it’s just oral.
I know lots of women who don’t like to give blowjobs. And, I know tons of chicks who don’t like to receive either.
By the way, I LOVE your “say to your friend” scenario. That’s my point exactly. Technically, oral sex is “sex” but we don’t talk about it / treat it like it is.
I think this age we’re in…of oral sex only being “technically sex” but as you said, FBC, it’s something “we don’t talk about it/treat it like it is” seems to be a cover-up for something else we’re avoiding. As I said earlier, if one was forced, there would be no question that it is a sexual assault.
However, some folks make a distinction if they voluntarily participate in oral sex before they are ready to “go all the way”. So, I’m truly confused. I suppose these questions are really for those who don’t consider it oral sex as SEX:
Is it cheating if your partner is caught doing it? And by cheating, I mean cheating in the sense of your partner caught kissing another or cheating in the sense that they were working hard, bumping uglies?
Can someone explain how the *act* itself is not really “sex” when it’s voluntary but yet, the *act* is worth the highest charge of sexual battery when it’s not voluntary? In other words, when does it become sex–enough to be charged if done under assault?
[Raises hand and bounces in seat while saying, "Ooh, ooh, ooh Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter!!"]
Okay, here’s my stab at your questions …
Is it cheating if your partner is caught doing it?
Yep. I say it’s cheating. :) At the same time, every relationship is different and people have different ideas about what constitutes being unfaithful. It’s like that scene in Love Actually ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2wgxeYy4RE ). He didn’t have “sex” with the young dark-haired floozy in the office, but it still hurt his wife just the same.
Can someone explain how the *act* itself is not really “sex” when it’s voluntary but yet, the *act* is worth the highest charge of sexual battery when it’s not voluntary?
Absolutely. Everybody has their kink and there are tons of ways to get off — some considered more “extreme” than others depending on your perspective … and all would be considered battery if nonconsensual.
It’s like the difference between a rape fantasy and actually being raped. One case is sex and the other is a crime. I am soooooo not down with rape fantasies and I don’t necessarily “get” that. BUT, I know someone who does. My friend Tess wrote a graphic piece, I Want to Be Raped, for Time Out New York. And her blog Urban Gypsy (NSFW) sheds more insights.
But, since I can’t speak to rape fantasies, I’ll stick with what I can: erotic spanking. I’m a domme who’s all about doling out erotic love taps to guys who are kinda into that stuff. For both of us, it’s foreplay. If it was nonconsensual, it might possibly be assault and battery.
Same with oral. If it’s consensual, it’s sex (whether technically or not). But, the minute you remove consent from the equation, it’s something entirely different. It’s like the difference between giving someone money and having them snatch your purse, the difference between inviting someone over for dinner and having a break & entry who raids your fridge.
If it weren’t sex, call girls wouldn’t charge the likes of David Vitter and Elliot Spitzer money to engage in it. A professional barber won’t “take off a little behind the ears” for free. A restaurant won’t comp you an appetizer.
They don’t call ‘em sexual organs for nada. Whether folk don’t consider it sex because it preserves their personal sense of virginity (women and young girls) or fidelity (men and Bill Clinton) doesn’t make it less so. The distinctions speak more to guilt than physiology (I’m exaggerating a tiny bit, but humor me).
wow…. so many variations on the same theme….. do you want sex or do you need love.. splitting over a few hairs over something so natural as choosing which
way your flow goes is a waste of time….. after you swap medical records and then
floss…. it’s magic time….. if you are married … you are with the one you said ” I
do ” to….. and she doesn’t float your boat after all these years…. ya should have put some thought into it before you signed on the dotted line…. do the right thing and part ways….. and if you’re not married…. if you are with someone right
now…. then you signed a verbal agreement to be with your chosen partner for
however long you wish it to be….. yeah, I know about the 500 mile rule…. if you are about 500 miles away…. you can do your thing…or can you….. at this very moment…. the world is a very,very small place…. and you can ” found out”
in a New York minute….. yeah, if ya can’t be with the one you love,then love the one you’re with….. sorry… that dog wont hunt….. there so many things that you can catch that a lot of ” wonder drugs” wont cure…. and just how you would feel, if you gave something very bad to someone who was very good to
you….. could you look at yourself in the mirror….. ” well … it’s just a slap ‘n’ tickle…” at times, you must be accountable for you actions…. for someone …
out there ” out on a lime” could for a heartbeat, change your very life with an
oops … didn’t tell ya… well no one told me and look at what they gave me,so
I am just passing this along…. dont think bad of me…. just wanted to have a moment with you…. and jet…. what you have is sooo special … just maybe you
might want to find someone,that you can call your own,to share what you deem
special…. just a thought…. don’t shoot the messenger …
lamesabassman…. just dig the message…..
@FBC: I know, I know. It kinda sad we both agree that train has left the station. So much for trying to hold on to that tension by not giving in to you. ;-)
You can be an oral virgin or an anal virgin but if you are a virgin , you haven’t had intercourse. A hand job is a sex act but it isn’t Sex. If you had sex you had intercourse.
Showing my age again maybe but I will go to the grave convinced of this.
Cheating? Sure,getting a blow job in a closet at work or from a hooker or giving one to a guy in a bar when you are ‘spoken for’ is cheating. It doesn’t make it sex. It makes it a sexual act. Necking can be cheating.
And the consensual argument is interesting but it still doesn’t make it sex if you were forced to perform fellatio. Or forced to experience the hard hand of an unwanted spank. The qualifiers distinguish it from sex.
Your president had several blow jobs from a young woman. Cheating on his wife, absolutely. Having sex with her? No, he had oral sex with her. And yes, he came. A hand job.
@ Lee Coles: Uh-oh. :) If we use “if you pay for it, it’s sex” as our measure, we’ve gotta start calling kissing sex. (Call girls charge for that, too.) Man, even if you don’t sleep with them, you’ve still gotta pay for their time. So, that means “being alone in a bedroom with someone” would be sex — even if both parties are fully clothed and neither touches the other.
@ lamesabassman: :)
@ errorboy: Hey, I didn’t say anything about letting go of the tension. I think we’ll always have that, loverboy. :) You’re too sexy to let that go.
@ don: Brilliant. I love your comment!
“practically”? ” everything but”?
Sounds like they’re trying to find some kind of “wiggleroom” so they don’t have to feel guilty about something. Like sex on the first date. My attitude has always been ” if the situation calls for it”
my guess is “practically” and ” everything but” are making excuses for or dodging the horizontal mambo.
“…If we use “if you pay for it, it’s sex” as our measure, we’ve gotta start calling kissing sex. (Call girls charge for that, too.) Man, even if you don’t sleep with them, you’ve still gotta pay for their time. So, that means “being alone in a bedroom with someone” would be sex — even if both parties are fully clothed and neither touches the other…”
Though I realize some johns solicit call girls just to listen to them rant about their insensitive wives, my point is that people do not offer any aspect of their service freely, regardless of the degree of service. Spanking, listening, necking (hookers neck? I’ve read they’d rather not- as they consider it more intimate, and less protected, than intercourse), it all involves a degree of their personal time and their private space. That’s why I used analogies from other professions- a cabbie wouldn’t take you two blocks gratis, nor would a housecleaner dust your shelves para nada.
Cleaning is cleaning, driving is driving, sex is sex. May not be intercourse, but it’s sex. Kissing is not sex. Ask any parent.
@ dkzone: Getting back to the question in the post. Here’s a scenario. You go out with a woman named Karen. At the end of the night, back at her place, fully clothed in jeans and a pink sweater that never gets unbuttoned, Karen gives you a blow job. Then, kissing — but nothing more, nothing less — happens. You don’t touch her privates and you never see any bare flesh between knees and neck. You’d say/think/whatever: “I had sex with Karen.” ???
@ Lee Coles: I totally agree with you. I was just responding to your “If it weren’t sex, call girls wouldn’t charge [...] money to engage in it.” My point was simply that call girls charge for lots of stuff that doesn’t constitute “sex.”
I don’t think of oral sex as sex. Sex to me is penetration of vagina or anus. Oral falls into the “everything but” category. Don’t mess this one up for me. This is how I held onto my “virtue” for years : ).
Firstly, whatever jumped off between karen and myself would remain between us. therefore telling someone what happened “wouldn’t happen”…..its a scorpio thing…we’re a secretive lot. LOL
with that said. I would be very frustrated by the experience. I’m big on reciprocation and i do enjoy my oral best when served at say….69 degrees…..
but if i had to characterize it it would be “Oral sex” another scorpio thing is that we’re sticklers for being specific.
I would have to say the next question would be.
did I orgasm?
and if so, was there swallowing involved?
The reason why I make this distinction is that
1. a blowjob without orgasm is torture.
2. swallowing is much more intimate.
ultimately I would still view it as sex. Again my ownly dissapointment would be not being able to reciprocate
@ Desiree: HIGH FIVE for the honesty!!! :)
@ dkzone: You said, “whatever jumped off between karen and myself would remain between us.” I like that! :) And, ooooh, you bring up such juicy questions re: The Big “O” and the spit vs. swallow. I might dedicate an entire post to one or both of these. By the way, you know I bedroom-tested “O” advice for Glamour magazine, right? Results are on page 3 ( http://www.glamour.com/sexmen/articles/2008/04/orgasms ) and the graph is here ( http://www.glamour.com/sexmen/articles/2008/04/normal_orgasm ). :)
Desiree…… The Choir Boy is thinking ….. Virtuous…. cool…
but, The Altar Boy is thinking….. Virtuoso…… hellacool……
but,I digress…. to swallow means that she is soooo into you,that she wont let
any part of you go to waste….
to not swallow means….. next time…. spring for Nobu…..
C’mon….you got to let the g-spot orgasm go to finality….just once…
You have nothing to lose….except money for laundry. LOL
I’ve actually taken a few female squirts to the face….honestly its like water…..thats it. keep a towel and glass of orange juice handy ;)
dkzone…… hmmm…. K….. am trained for this….. cover me… I’m going in…
lamesabassman……… tastes like chicken broth…..
Yup, just as I suspected. This conscious delusion (and I mean this) is merely (at least for those who are honest enough to say so) a coverup so they don’t feel like they are more sexually active than…others(?), supposedly. Reading various responses, I see that it’s a personal *need* to think oneself as more “virtuous”.
Whatever helps people sleep at night, I guess. I just didn’t know we were still so uncomfortable about our sexual needs/desires vs. what society will think of us.
Maybe that’s just too naive of me.
@ lamesabassman: Desiree rocks. :)
@ dkzone: And, yeah, you’re too much! :)
@ Peggy b.: Oh gaaawd! :) I wouldn’t say it’s naivety or a “conscious delusion” at all. Sometimes people disagree because they just disagree. And, I wouldn’t generalize Desiree’s “virtuous” comment to the other various responses either. :) Desiree is a woman like no other! She’s great.
No, please don’t mistake my comment as an attack on any reader. But I suppose you’re right–people can and do disagree because they do. It’s that scholar in me that’s always looking for the *other reason* behind it. And sometimes, that can get me into trouble!
oral is still sex. actually, i found it more intimate than vaginal sex. there’s no safe oral sex, that’s why i never do it with one night stands.
just about anything between two adults …. is sex…. one President talked about
having lust in his heart…… while another one put his lust where it counted the most….. this has been the most talked about topic that I’ve ever seen anywhere
and that I’ve been….. around this world about 4 times as a musician …. and a soldier …. sex is everything….. from the way we eat,sleep,talk,look,dress and eventually … die….. if it’s just you and yours… then ….. holding hands can go to
hugs…. deep kisses …… Roman hands and Russian fingers…… the undressing of the eyes….. then the disrobe and then the full body massage ….. with the brain
being the most sexual organ we have that the mere thought about another person
male or female in any way fit could be counted as a sex act or one leading to..
whether oral or anal…. or any and all in between … whether you like it or dont
it’s all sex….. and it could be good,bad or indifferent …. if it gets your Ya-Ya’s out….. it’s sex….. and if we are looking for Mr.Goodbar or the Tooth Fairy …
then it’s not about sex…. it’s about a way out not a way in…. it’s lust….and lust
has put more people in the ground than one would ever care to ponder….
just think before you do…. or it might be the end…. of you….
lamesabassman……. ” Life… tell it like it is… for you may have to die
before you live….” Sly knew, why didn’t you…
Good point, Carolina! Nothing’s foolproof. There is no safe sex (vaginal, oral, anal, etc.); only safer sex.