Last night, I had a 94 minute 40 second call (yes, I checked my phone) with a a close pal who has known me since we were 18. Conversation topic? Yesterday’s FUNKY BROWN CHICK® post, “Single Women’s Affairs: Sleeping With Married Men.” She told me she was surprised — and, though she didn’t say it but I get the impression, disappointed – I mentioned I’ve messed around with other women’s boyfriends. “It just doesn’t seem like you,” she said. “You’re generally a consistent person. I know you wouldn’t like it if someone did that to you, so I don’t get why you’d do it to someone else.” Here, grab a seat. I’ll explain. Before I do that, it’s probably appropriate to draw your attention to my interview with Lust in Translation: The Rules of Infidelity from Tokyo to Tennessee author Pamela Druckerman for Huffington Post. Druckerman says Americans get freaked out about cheating because, “We see it as a measure of character.” Perhaps that explains a bit of the heat in yesterday’s comments about infidelity. The overarching theme seemed to be: Pourquoi, pourquoi? WHY?!!? Brotha Tech asks, “Out of all the men/women on this planet…even the white ones, remind me why a married man/woman is actually an option?” As someone who has slept with other women’s dudes, here we go …
1. He Wasn’t Married. As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve never knowingly slept with a guy with a ringed finger. Guys in casual relationships? Yes. Married men? No.
2. It’s Not a Game of Numbers. When Clutch magazine interviewed me last November, in passing I admitted, “I have slept with people’s boyfriends – as long as there’s no ring and you’re not promised to someone else [...]” A guy named Mike lamented, “The woman dates every race of man on the planet. How the hell can’t she find single man in NYC?”
I’ve found and dated plenty of single black, white, Latino, European and other men. Some were better matches than others. And, of course, I’ve met and felt intense chemistry with men who were already in relationships, too. There’s a fallacy that more people equals more potential partners. It’s like telling a gay man, “With all these single women in [insert city], you’re bound to find at least ONE that’s a good fit for you.” Try explaining to a lesbian, “You just haven’t met the RIGHT man yet.” It doesn’t work that way. It’s not a numbers game. Chemistry is chemistry, and people like who they like.
3. What Happens In His Bed Is His Business. I’ve never cheated on any of my dates, lovers, boyfriends, exes or whatever because that’s not how I roll when I’m in a relationship. That said, it’s not my place to judge what goes on in others’ romances. This goes back to what I said yesterday. It smacks of the Scarlet Letter era when a single woman was called a “cheater” for messing around with a guy who stepped out on his lover. Remember when that whole Pitt-Jolie-Aniston thing initial went down? Angelina didn’t cheat on anyone; Brad did. Yet, she – not he — was bitch-slapped with the homewrecker label.
4. Life Doesn’t Turn Out As Expected. In high school, a friend’s parents had an interesting “How We Met” story. The mom was engaged to another man. Weeks before the wedding, she met the guy who is her current husband. They sparked a romance. Eventually, she left her fiancee for the new guy (my friend’s dad). More than 30 years later, they’re still married, have three beautiful children and are continuing to build a happy life together. Did they plan it that way? Nope. Did they meet under the most ideal circumstances? Nuh-uh. Would she have missed out on the guy who turned out to be the great love of her life if she’s stayed with the dude she originally planned to marry? Absolutely. When you find a good match, you know it — even if it doesn’t come in the package expected.
As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve never cheated on my boyfriends and I’d like to think I never will. That said, I believe affairs say more about the relationship than it does about the Other Woman or Other Man; afterall, “homewrecking” starts at home. If I was in the longterm relationship with a partner who screwed around and eventually left me for another person, I would hope I’d have the sensibility, strength and courage to let go of that which no longer belonged to me.
5. It’s Nobody’s Business But Theirs. I wrote infidelity again today because last night’s conversation provided tons of food for thought. Yesterday, I mentioned Alicia Keys to illustrate a point. Today, I mentioned Angelina. However, to close — and repeating Tuesday’s thought — If two consenting adults have sex, it’s usually really no one else’s business besides the parties involved. I’ve never really spoken at length about The Other Woman stuff because, quite frankly, what happens between Alicia, Angelina or any other woman’s legs is her business.
{ 18 comments… read them below or add one }
Sigh.
I guess there will always be these polarized views of affairs, cheating, commitments, etc. To respond to your points:
- 1. “He wasn’t married” – Doesn’t matter. Just because two people have or have not legally made their relationship a marriage, does not make it okay for them to be ‘fair game’.
- 2. “It’s not a numbers game” – Chemistry can happen with anyone, agreed. Where one lets that chemistry lead, as adults, is a different story. If you have chemistry and want to explore the options outside of your relationship, then be honest with the person you are committed with. Maybe they will understand, maybe they won’t, but they have a right to know. And if all parties are aware, sure the other man/woman can feel free to explore said chemistry. Because only then are not encroaching.
- 3. “What Happens in his Bed is his Business” – When an outside adult decides to participate in making an affair happen, it becomes the business of all involved, especially the one being cheated on. Sure they could cheat on their partners with someone else, and if that happens, only then is it not your business and can you walk away and say, “figure it out, it’s your relationship”. But if you’re the other woman/man, you’re knowingly participating in a scheme.
- 4. “Life Doesn’t Turn out as Expected” – Agreed. However, cheating is different from meeting someone else that you have chemistry with, and breaking up with your current significant other in order to pursue it.
- 5. “It’s Nobody’s Business but Theirs” – Disagree, it affects all parties involved in the original relationship and affair/s. And thus becomes their business. And of course, since you posted on the internet, it became our business to give you our 2 cents respectfully. =)
At the end of the day, my problem is with the deception in cheating and affairs, not with chemistry changing or adults growing apart, etc. It’s about honesty and respect. As adults, is it too much to expect honesty from your partner/spouse regarding the circumstances of the relationship you and your heart are involved in? In my opinion, no.
I can completly relate to what your saying. I almost started seriously dating this guy but found out he was married. I was hurt that he’d lied more than the fact that he was married.
He told me after I knew that he was married that it was so she could get a green card as if to indicate that the marriage didn’t mean anything.
But when you have vows and if the other partner is unaware of what’s going on then it should be squashed, in my opinion.
I was in a point in my life that he could never give me all that I wanted outside of sex and it was not worth it.
I just didn’t like that his wife was being lied too, it’s more of indicater that he wouldn’t be honest with me if I asked him to be.
phoebe….your thoughts are so well said. I wish I could have formulated your post. It’s more than just the sex….it’s about the deceit and dishonesty. People should have more integrity than that, I think.
phoebe: Yep, I totally agree with you: “When an outside adult decides to participate in making an affair happen, it becomes the business of all involved, especially the one being cheated on.” Emphasis on “involved.” I still fail to see how it’s any business of uninvolved parties — i.e. if Bob is cheating on his wife Sara with Jenny, that’s their business. Not mine. So, I guess I could turn it around and ask: “If Bob is cheating on his wife Sara with Jenny, would it be important to YOU to make it YOUR business?” :)
Nelle: Funny. I just had this EXACT conversation with a friend earlier today. If a guy is lying on someone else to be WITH you, you’ve kind of gotta be willing to assume he’d be willing to lie TO you.
Horton: You mentioned what “people” should do. I’m not judging others or pretending to be more holy than anyone else; so, I genuinely don’t know what else to say :( I have no strong feelings about “people’s” affairs — whether that “person” is Alicia Keys, David Letterman or anyone else.
I am not judging either….I certainly don’t care what any celebrity does….my reference to ‘people’ was not directed at anyone in particular….just a general statement than I think each and everyone of us should strive to have integrity, be honest, etc…especially with those that we hold dear, regardless of any specific situation…..certainly I am in no place to judge.
When I was younger, I was really bothered by folks (male and female) who had affairs, while married. My dad was a cheater, so that likely shaped my position. I must say that I had a slight change of heart when I realized that my grandmother spent most of her post-marriage life dating married men. She was married to an abusive man in the 1940s and vowed to never make that mistake again. My grandmother wanted to remain an indpendent woman and, unfortunately, for many women (even today) that means being single or dating a married man, who can give you some independence. In relationships, women often get the shorter end of the stick. I think that if dating a married man can get you certain benefits, while giving you the flexibility that you need, then so be it.
On the otherhand, I stay away from them. I am too afraid of the potential negative consequences.
A couple of things:
1) Some say that they are in no position to judge. Well, I *am* in a position to judge. I am the Great and Powerful Baba Doodlius, and I judgeth thee, as “someone who has slept with other women’s dudes” to be Angelinaesque in your Homewreckiosity. :)
2) Truly, I don’t *want* to know what happens between Angelina’s legs. I really don’t.
@ Baba Doodlius
HAHAHAHA
@Ms. Chick (Chica if you nasty)
Let me first say I am honored (and a little embarrassed…not really) that I, in a small way, contributed to your latest post. Furthermore, I hope I didn’t give you the impression that my earlier comment was directed towards you.
</suck up> (or lick up…since I am talking to a lady)
Having said that, I can agree that if you are not married, you are single (even if you are in a quote unquote serious relationship). So the proverbial “line in the sand” gets erased then redrawn from time to time.
BUT It’s just a whole ‘nother ballgame when the person that gets you moist has your attention is married. I think life is what you make of it. One great quote I live by is “I am the master of my fate, the captain of my soul” What that means to me is it doesn’t matter how much fate, coincidence, chance, luck, or destiny there is in the world, we inevitably have control over our thoughts, and actions. To apply that to the subject at hand, we have control over who we partner up with, whether it be dating, relationship, or marriage.
All that to say this, relationships are what we make of them. I don’t think there is ONE person out there for everyone – You grind it out to find someone you are willing to deal with compatible with and then you make it work. It’s then our responsibility (yes, I’d like to think we are responsible for each other) as outsiders, to step aside and let them handle their business, for better or for worse.
AnnaScarlet: Thanks for your honesty :) A close friend told me her parents were divorcing earlier this year because her father wanted out of the 20+ year relationship with her mother. When I asked my friend, “Do you know who the other woman is?” she fucking FLIPPED OUT and was like “My dad wouldn’t cheat!!” I told her, “Women leave super-longterm relationships for a million different reasons, but men typically only leave for another woman.” She got mad at me. In the end, her dad did indeed already have someone waiting and he now plans to marry her. I think it’s hard for children to accept their parents would ever have an affair. Denial and anger kick in. Of course those are logical responses. At the same time, it doesn’t really help anyone anyone forward. So, again, thanks for being honest about your father’s as well as your grandmother’s relationships.
Baba Doodlius: You’re funny :)
Nelle: :)
Brotha Tech: I totally agree: “relationships are what we make of them.” I make the most of mine and I leave others to make the most of theirs. :) It’s like the gay marriage debate. I GENUINELY don’t care if two men who are in love with each other want to marry. Their love doesn’t affect me. Likewise, nowhere in today’s (or yesterday’s) post have I said, “This is what YOU should do.” So, here’s the point where I think we might have to agree to disagree. I’m not telling anyone else how to manage their love lives, and I don’t really understand the motivating factors behind others do so.
I agree with the point made about how love does not come in the package you expected. I didn’t go looking for someone, it just evolved into a close friendship and emotional bond. Nothing physical, ever– although an emotional affair is often more dangerous as a sexual one. But what do you do when you live with someone who isn’t capable of changing? You either accept it, or move on. Which is, you put duty to keeping the family together over what you really want and pray that someday, you can forget about this other person and try to be content with what you have.
Well I I have read this a couple times and have to agree with the funky brown chick for a couple of reasons…
1. How can you be blamed for something that u don’t know? Regaurdless of what happens, give me the option to get involed
2.What johnny does with sue has no effect on sally if sally aint married to john! They are 2 consenting adults, they don’t need anyone’s approval to fuck!
I have been cheated on,did it hurt? Yes, but, you learn a valuable lesson from those experiences. I have learned that people will do whatever they can to make themselves happy even at the expense of others. We always hurt the one we love. But overall, I respect everyone’s opinion, but I’m rolling with funky brown on this one
I can see some of your points on the issue of infidelity, except for the last one. My personal motto is ” I don’t care who you fuck, as long as you are not fucking me.” Meaning that if you are in between my legs and you are doing things that increases the chances of harming my sexual, reproductive, and emotional health, what goes on between your legs just became my business!
simply put…. one person’s ceiling is a other’s person’s floor….. we may say that we are
offended by those actions of others…. but, when the door closes ….. we will do what we wish
when just as many people are getting married … others are lining up for the big kiss off…
when do the words ” am with you till death… taxes…. swine flu … lay-offs… russian hands..
roman fingers ….. STD’s …. checkin’ the room …. do us part…. ” start to be meaningless
and we flip the script to double your pleasure… double you fun….. when you fade the fates..
and roll your point…. can you handle the outcome…. or are you dust in the wind…..
lamesabassman….. we are what we eat…..
Elli: I agree with you, and I think my last point may have been unclear. When I say “the parties involved” I mean if A and B are sleeping together behind C’s back, I think it’s A, B and C’s business, not random strangers who are in no way involved. I really think “A” did a great job of summarizing this last point in her extended comment about infidelity.
Except that if you call the parties A, B and C, and then refer to me as “A,” it makes it sound like I’m cheating on “C”! ;) (That’s why I tried to give the people names, and gender-neutral ones at that.)
OMG, I soooo didn’t even think about that!! :) By the way, I noticed the gender neutral names. Loved that! :)
FYI – The scarlet A that you are using acutally belongs to this group: http://outcampaign.org/ .