Down With Interracial Dating and Marriage?
Be forewarned. This post will be a bit scattered because I want to say so much, but I haven’t quite found the way to wrap it up neatly in a pretty package of the typical Funky Brown Chick post length of 3 or 4 paragraphs or less. Anyway. Here we go … I’ve written a bunch of stuff about interracial dating, interracial sex, white men’s penises and other topics about good ol’ miscegenation. Most of it’s pretty lighthearted and this post will be, too. Sort of.
Sexy men are sexy men, and I don’t care what shade they are. When active on online dating sites, I’ve shot emails to Indian, Asian, black and white dudes. If you’ve played the internet dating game, you know some people respond to your emails, winks and other e-flirting. Some don’t. For what it’s worth, to be honest, for the MIA dudes who weren’t black, I’ve often wondered: “Did he not write me back because he wasn’t interested in ME or does he not date black girls, period?” Could be either, could be something else entirely. I don’t know much about the non-Twannalovers because it would’ve been weird to ask, “Heeeey, why didn’t you write me back?!?!” Plenty of men in New York. No need to chase ones who aren’t into me, right? I just go out on dates with other (white, black, foreign or whatever) guys who are interested. Weeeell, enter OkCupid.
The picture above is from their recent survey data. Last week, they announced they discovered your race affects whether people write you back on their site. For example, Anonymous Asian ladies writing black men on OkCupid get relatively high response rates. But, when tables are turned, Asian women are more likely to shove a cold shoulder at black men who initiate contact. So much from blasian love, huh? OkCupid’s other results? White men are less likely to respond to black women. “The takeaway here is,” the company concluded, “although race shouldn’t matter in messaging, it does. A lot.” If you’re interested in the survey, read the rest of the results over at OkCupid.
You think I’d be pissed off about the their findings, right? Well, yes and no. Shamus Dalton Witherford IV doesn’t want to date Twanna Hines? Fine. He doesn’t have to. I can’t necessarily wholly fault someone for their dating preferences. In fact, I’d rather someone say straight out they AREN’T interested in dating different race/ethnicities than check boxes indicating they are — then conveniently proceed to avoid responding to women who don’t match their preferences. If you’re a white dude who only dates white women, be honest about it. If you’re an Asian lesbian looking for a 5′10″ black woman in a petite frame. Say that. If you’re a Latino dude who wants a short white girl with full curves, go for it! Why waste anyone’s time? No one likes rejection. Having been on it’s receiving end, I don’t like it when I “put myself out” there to men — regardless of ethnicity, whether online or offline — and don’t get a response. It makes me feel awkward and unwanted. But, mostly, it makes me feel silly! It’s like, “Ewww! I went after a guy who wasn’t even interested. I don’t want to be that ‘Desperate Girl.’” But enough about my Adventures in Online Dating. I wanna talk about something I mentioned on Twitter last night.
If you’ve not yet heard the news, Keith Bardwell, a justice of the peace in Louisiana, denied a marriage license to Beth Humphrey and Terence McKay since he doesn’t think they should have children because he’s black and she’s white. Quoting Bardwell (via NPR):
“I’m not a racist. I just don’t believe in mixing the races [...] I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home [...] they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else.”
When I shared the article on my Facebook earlier, a handsome Aussie pal jokingly commented, “I’m worried that he keeps his black friends in piles.” I laughed because his comment is funny :) And, now, for the more serious side …. WHAT. THE. FUCK. IS. GOING. ON. IN. LOUISIANA?! This gets back to what I was writing about earlier. [Points up a few paragraphs.] There aren’t laws saying anyone HAS TO date or marry anyone else because, quite frankly, they don’t. Hell, any black person can say, “I don’t date white people.” And, vice versa. Preferences, schmeferences. No one HAS TO date interracially (hate that term), but that’s not the point. Anyone who WANTS to date or get married should be able to. Loving v. Virginia anyone? 1967? It’s almost 2010. Hmmm, I guess that all I have to say. So, on second thought, instead of this really really long blogpost, I could’ve summed my feelings up with a simple sentence and a link: It’s disappointing and weird that we’re “here” again — revisiting/referencing such basic, fundamental rights.
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Pssst! Interested in Loving v. Virginia? If you missed it, I wrote about the couple — and about how Van Morrison’s song Brown-Eyed Girl was supposedly originally titled Brown-Skinned Girl — in a October 2005 Funky Brown Chick post called Making Love in the Green Grass.
October 16th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
A friend of mine once said that if someone has to say something like “I’m not a racist, but…” or “I have plenty of black friend…” chances are their a racist.
October 16th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
this is a no-brainer….. just pick up ” Mississippi Marsala ” DVD….. that should race your motor….
lamesabassman…. killer
October 16th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
and… Si….
lamesabassman….. am so down with it….
October 16th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
“I’m not a racist. I just don’t believe in mixing the races”.
Wow. Just, wow.
I spent some time in Louisiana in the mid 90’s, and I was absolutely flabbergasted at racial attitudes there. I’ve been all over and thought I had heard everything, but I was wrong – I’d say that Lousisianans (a significant number of them anyway) are Neanderthal in their racial inclinations, but that would be insulting to Neanderthals. Apparently it’s still like that all these years later. Bajeebers!
October 17th, 2009 at 6:09 am
You said “she’s black and he’s white” and the article I read said “She is white and he is black.” Just goes to show how irrelevant these facts are.
October 17th, 2009 at 6:25 am
Amina: Yeah, and I don’t even think this is restricted to this context. Whenever anyone tells me anything about themselves without prompting, I’m always skeptical. If a guy says “Trust me, I’m an honest person” I grow wary. Because, you know, if you really are (or aren’t) something, there’s no need to say it, right? Your actions show it. And, typically, I notice the “I’m not …” or “I’m a …” conversation happen after actions contradict what came before the words.
lamesabassman: I’ve seen that movie a bunch of times but never from start to finish in one sitting.
Baba Doodlius: I’ve only been to LA for Mardi Gras. That was ages ago, and I was partying the whole time. So, my experiences in the state are pretty limited :)
A: Mea culpa! Typo. I corrected it. She is, indeed, white and he’s black — though I’m not sure it would’ve mattered if it was the other way around. :)
October 17th, 2009 at 10:35 am
I have plenty of relatives (not from the south) who have a problem with my husband being another race. It blows my mind because they know him and he’s a great guy and a great husband. I’m damn lucky to have him! Still, they think it’s “wrong” to mix races and that we shouldn’t be married, even after all these years. They are relieved we’re not having interracial babies, but at the same time, they think it’s “wrong” to not have kids — they are so conflicted! :-)
October 17th, 2009 at 11:49 am
His black “friends” are fucking stupid.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
LOL Thanks for the post sweetie… talks about some real stuff. But makes me quite nervous though, that someone (who has studied law) referring to the Judge is so ignorant. WOW! I have four college degrees and would never say anything so one sided and down right stupid! If I EVER DO KICK ME!
October 17th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Oh…sorry!!! Keith Bardwell is not a judge! Okay.. my bad… well, he still said something very stupid!
October 18th, 2009 at 12:21 am
well atleast i can count on using the good judge’s bathroom when ever i’m over his house… :/
October 18th, 2009 at 12:26 am
Phoena: Sorry to hear about your relatives. Race/ethnicity aside, it’s never easy when there’s static between family members and a loved one. :( Hope you guys are handling it okay.
Kalisia: :)
Miko Holt: To be honest, I didn’t know justices of the peace weren’t judges until this story came out. Here’s the the modern day era Cliffs Notes (Wikipedia) on the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_of_the_peace#United_States
October 18th, 2009 at 12:31 am
Those are some disturbing statistics. :(
It makes me rethink my single status… I’m not sure if these results would be reflected in the general public, but it’s depressing to see even on this small survey.
October 18th, 2009 at 4:43 am
That OKCupid survey really opened my eyes a bit and I’ve decided to boycott online dating sites. I decided a while ago not to pay for them in order to save money, but now I really don’t want to participate. I kinda figured that people weren’t totally honest about some things, like body type, but I don’t understand why someone would lie about racial preference. I’m totally down with interracial dating, and never again will I be fooled by those online daters who claim to be down with it too!
Now, as for that Lousiana case…
I love playing devil’s advocate, so please don’t shoot me for this. While I agree that the Justice of the Peace (JOP) is a racist asshole, I think he does have a point. He said that although he wouldn’t marry the couple based upon his beliefs, there are plenty of other people who would marry them. Technically, he can be sued for refusing to marry them because it’s illegal to refuse service based upon race. But are we seriously going to fight every single racist bastard out there? What if the couple was gay and he refused to marry same sex couples? What if the couple was Jewish and he only married Christian couples? What would have happened in those situations – would the couples have moved on and found someone else or made a big deal about it and sued him? And why would they want that guy to marry them anyway if he holds such negative, racist opinions???
I think there are lots of people out there who still aren’t up to speed on equal rights legislations, and I don’t think suing them will change their attitudes about race. In the end, it’s really their loss…they are losing money by refusing to serve people because of their racist beliefs.
Maybe the Lousiana JOP should have lied and said he was booked and couldn’t accommodate them or something. But at least he was honest, and honesty is one virtue people seem to lack nowadays. Maybe JOPs should post their racial preferences to make wedding planning easier and so that weddings (which are supposed to be one of the best days of a person’s life) are not ruined by racist undertones in the language used by the JOP.
October 18th, 2009 at 5:41 am
mydria – recognizing that you are playing the Devil’s advocate, I’ll respond to your points.
The Justice of Peace is a civil servant, and it is his responsibility to do his job without taking his personal beliefs into consideration. If he’s unwilling to perform his duties, he should find another job. If we accept that government officials can discriminate if it accords with their own beliefs, imagine the situations which could develop:
A mixed-race couple is unable to marry without traveling to another part of the state, because no official in their district sanctions their marriage.
A gay man cannot get his request for unemployment money processed, because the employees channel Jan Moir and believe that he brought it on himself through his lifestyle.
A woman is unable to get a passport because the person behind the desk refuses to hand it over to her on the grounds that women should not be traveling except in the company of their husbands.
A person isn’t given a driver’s license because s/he wore a visible symbol of a religion which is not the same as the examiner’s religion.
A Justice of the Peace routinely gives women higher fines for traffic accidents and always finds them at fault in an accident because he believes that women are bad drivers.
Parade permits are systematically given to Planned Parenthood and Greenpeace, but are never given to anti-abortion groups or the NRA.
Each of these examples cited is an instance where a public official is able to put her or his personal beliefs above performing activities which are part of her/his job description.
I believe that it is a clear-cut situation when the person in question holds a government job which is taxpayer funded. The difficult question comes when this is not the case.
Is a religious official justified in deciding who she or he will marry? Remember that religious organizations have a tax-free status in the US, so society may have an interest in the outcome.
Is an employee justified in refusing to perform a task associated with her/his job on the grounds of moral objection, or should that person have chosen a different job? Examples would include a pharmacist who refuses to sell birth control, or someone who works at a shop and objects to selling tobacco products. What if the same view is held by everyone in the company, so that it is impossible to purchase the product from that company. Does it make a difference if the product serves a medical need? Is it relevant if local competition exists, or does the company have the absolute right to sell only what it wants to sell even if they are (for instance) the only pharmacy for 100 miles in any direction?
October 18th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
This report validates what I have experienced with these sites in the past.
Now I know i’m not crazy.
October 19th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Sherry: Who knows. OkCupid’s survey could or could not reflect what happens in the general public.
mydria you bring up good points and A I love your responses.
The Angry Independent: Nope, you’re not crazy. Well, at least not that I can tell ;)
October 21st, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Twanna,
First time commenting on your blog (just recently came across it and LOVE it!!!). I am a white man from Boston who firmly believes in interracial dating/marriage if that’s what floats your boat. The reason I am actually commenting tonite though is because I spend some time last night and parts of today catching up on some of your previous posts (makes for great reading!) and you mentioned at least two times before that you have issues with white men who ONLY date black women. Why do you have such issues? I am a 30-year-old WM who prefers darker complected woman,period. What I mean by this is if a woman is white, I am personally attracted to darker-complected, almost “olive-skinned” white women with darker hair, as opposed to fair skinned WW and blondes. Meaning I’m more of an Alissa Milano type of guy than a Pam Anderson all-day!
Now, the interesting thing for me is that I am the same way with black women. I prefer darker-complected black women over “light-skinned”, “high yellow”, or “redbones” anyday. Again, I if we were watching “Martin”, as a teen, I woulda took Pam over Gina any day!
I would go as far as to say I prefer to date black women, but I don’t feel that this has ANYTHING to do with self-hatred (as was mentioned by another poster). I can’t explain why I am attracted to who I am attracted to. If I walk into a function or a club with 200 people, I’m checking for the 2 or 3 black women FIRST before I even look at any other women. I have always been like this, so I feel the argument that it may be a “phase” is null and void. My first crushes, as a pre-teen, were black women (well,girls back then… Lol). I lost my virginity to a black woman. I have a son with a black woman. And if I ever find the perfect companion for me, if she so happens to be a black woman, I would marry her.
Just curious as to why you mention several times to “stay away from white men who ONLY date black women??”
October 21st, 2009 at 7:49 pm
PS: sorry for the typos… This Blackberry keyboard is tiny!!! Lol
October 21st, 2009 at 7:56 pm
TeacherMan your post rocks! And not because I’m a woman who has color But because you talk about women who are of the darker persuasion and you note their beauty! Now that’s awesome….kudos to you!
October 21st, 2009 at 9:58 pm
TeacherMan: I totally agree that everyone has preferences. I guess when a guy says I “ONLY” date black women (or blondes or lefthanders or whatever), it makes me think it’s more about the trait than it is about the person who posesses it. Whatever the “it” is (i.e. dark skin, blond hand, lefthandedness, etc.)
Mikowrites: :)
October 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 am
I am a variation of libertarian. I believe a person should date, etc. whoever they chose so long as the person is a consenting adult. I have been in situations where a girl I knew (of various races) didn’t date white guys. My initial impulse was to be insulted. But upon introspection, I believe that anyone’s reason for being attracted to anyone else is that person’s prerogative. And I think that anyone is allowed to their opinions about interracial dating/marriage, but when it crosses over into interfering with another person’s rights on this matter, then it is a problem. This is where the LA justice of the peace was wrong. The singer Common is also vocal about his opposition to interracial relationships, but he is not a justice of the peace and interfering with anyone else’s rights.
October 28th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Couldn’t agree with you more :)
October 28th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Some food for thought!
Is it just a case of inter-racial daters getting a taste of their own medicine?
See inter-racial daters however, libral and open-minded they claim to be, have their prefrences, for example the owner, heavily prefers white and asain men, simply from the tone of this website. Even though she may be open to black men, they seem to take a back-burner for other races like most inter-racial daters their own race do get put on the back burner or ignored completly.
So in closing, do you think it’s fair to berate white people, who just dont prefer black as having something wrong with them, when said black inter-racial dater doesnt want to date black either?
Isn’t it hyprocrital? Statements such as “I don’t find, BM/BW, attractive” yet want white people to find the same features attractive that you dont attractive!
October 28th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I’m not sure who/what/where you’re quoting, but it’s certainly not me. I do date black men. I’ve never said nor written “I don’t find, BM/BW, attractive.” Also, you mentioned my preference for “asain” men, but I’ve never had an Asian boyfriend, lover, FB or anything.
Have I written about delicious Asian dudes? Hell yeah!! Black men, too. I write about guys, period. :) Hot dudes are hot dudes. Doesn’t matter if they’re Asian, black, Latino, white, Australian, etc.
I said: “I can’t necessarily wholly fault someone for their dating preferences.”
I also said: “I’d rather someone say straight out they AREN’T interested in dating different race/ethnicities than check boxes indicating they are [...]”
Then, I said: “Hell, any black person can say, ‘I don’t date white people.’ And, vice versa. Preferences, schmeferences. No one HAS TO date interracially [...]”
Somehow, you read that, then commented: “Do you think it’s fair to berate white people, who just dont prefer black as having something wrong with them, when said black inter-racial dater doesnt want to date black either?”
Huh? :) Sweetpea, what’s wrong? Your comment clearly takes issues with stuff I’ve neither said, written nor believe. Yet, for whatever reason, you write as if you’re addressing me directly.
By the way, in the future, please feel free to call me Twanna instead of “the owner.” It’s pretty casual around here :-)
October 28th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Hey, Twanna!
Yes, I know you’ve made topics about ‘Black Men’ perticulier one post about you being upset that you never got considered for a date! However this place seems very pro-interacial, so do you see how I might have jumped to conclusions?
“Somehow, you read that, then commented: “Do you think it’s fair to berate white people, who just dont prefer black as having something wrong with them, when said black inter-racial dater doesnt want to date black either?”
Huh? :) Sweetpea, what’s wrong? Your comment clearly takes issues with stuff I’ve neither said, written nor believe. Yet, for whatever reason, you write as if you’re addressing me directly.”
This comment wasn’t directed at you solely but was a general question to the readers. Please accept my sincere apologies I never meant any offense :) .!
You might not hold IR daters to any standards or expect anything from people but rather judge them as individuals, but alot of people do, just one look at you-tube will showcase militant black female IR daters who feel their over-looked on the dating scene, yet they show complete and utter contempt for black men, I can show you links so you can see for you self, so those are the people I was refering to not you.
Cool Site BTW :)
October 28th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Sara,
I’m not clear in what you mean by “is it a case of inter-racial” daters getting a taste of their own medicine?”
I date interracially, and as I’ve said in a previous post, have NO issues with “self-hatred” or dislike or contempt for my own race. I feel that most people who date interracially like who they like because of the mere fact of preference of attraction. Honestly, color is the last thing that I personally think about. In fact, as strange as this may sound (and I don’t know if any other IR daters out there can relate) I often don’t realize their is a difference between us until I see photographs of us together. I cannot see myself while dating a woman. I look into a woman’s eyes and her face, and that reflection is what I see. If a black woman sees me for who I am, and treats me the way she wants to be treated, and has no issues regarding black/white stigmas, then that is the reflection I see… I don’t see myself as a white man and her a black woman. We are people who care about one another. But it is when I see pictures together that I notice “wow, we look really different together, physically. ” But I LOVE that feeling because it makes me love and appreciate the woman I am with because she treats me with the same love, attention, and affection that she would any race. It shows me that she doesn’t see me as a (fine-ass)white man(LMAO!)J/k, but as just a man…
As far as people not responding to different races on dating sites, I agree with Twanna—it IS their preference. Not everyone dates interracially. And that’s ok.
:)
October 28th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Look Guys, I’m sure your all dating for the right reasons! But how come when the topic of ‘Inter-racial’ stems up people get defensive that their might be ’self-hate’ ect fueling people’s choices?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Honestly Sara, I don’t believe I personally get defensive. I think I get curious. Curious because I really have a hard time trying to figure out where the hell people would pull this idea from?? I have NEVER felt anything remotely close to self-hatred or anything of the like. And it’s not just curious because of you. I’ve heard/read this several times now, and I honestly have no idea why this would be assumed. I like to think of myself as a very open, honest, and curious man, so I think if I felt like that regarding my reasoning for IR dating, I would accept that and elaborate. I don’t think it’s really that deep. You like what you like.
Now, that being said…would I agree that I have my personal appreciations for certain things about black women—yes, of course. I do personally appreciate the beautiful skin tone of “many” black women. I do appreciate the curves and athleticism that “many” black women’s bodies possess. I do appreciate a black woman who loves herself, her family, and blackness as a whole, but none of these attributes are anything more than an appreciation because as you can see, I put the word “many” in quotes. This isn’t ALL black women. This isn’t even ALL women. All women are different. Many white women, and women or other racial/social backgrounds have many admirable and attractive qualities as well.
But, as a white man, I have issues with people making reference to black women not being able to find any “good” black men or white men know how to “treat” a black women how she “deserves to be treated.” I think a good man is a good man by nature. (Well, that and a good upbringing.) I can appreciate that black women are strong, have endured, and have had to overcome many obstacles in America (and worldwide.) But when white men use this as an excuse (or reasoning, for lack of a better word)as to why they are attracted to black women this also bothers me. I don’t think soley because BW have had it hard, you should be attracted to them. White men are NOT the savior. They’re men. Period. Some are dogs. Some are assholes. Some are good men.—but, they’re men. And black women don’t need a savior. Beautiful women are beautiful women, and good men are good men. Period.
That being said, Sara, I appreciate your comments. I love when people ask and discuss topics that get people thinking. Please don’t feel like I’m questioning you or singling you out. Not my intention. :)
Just love some good convo!! :)